please help me choose my first UW digicam!

[kittykat23uk]

Hi Everyone, new to the forum and after much researching, hesitating and general faffing, I'm decided I really want to get a digital camera this year. Now, my criteria are:

£300 to £400 price range for camera and housing with the ability to add on a strobe at some later date.

I want a camera that I can use both under water and for taking shots of wildlife, birds, reptiles, mammals etc. I have a telescope so one that I can use to digiscope with would be very useful. This involves mounting the camera to be in line with the eyepiece of my scope, therefore this resricts the size of the lens in the camera and some of the most compatible models seem to be the FujiF30 and F31, and Canon A540, A640 and A710IS.

So, I've been looking at the above models and they each seem to have their pros and cons. I'm leaning towards either the Fuji F31fd or the Canon A710 IS, because the canon has optical Image Stabilisation and the fuji has a picture stabilization mode.

Good points with the Canon A710IS
"
* 7.1 Megapixels
* 6x optical zoom with optical Image Stabilizer (35-210mm equiv.)
* DIGIC II, iSAPS, 9-Point AiAF, FlexiZone AF/AE
* Digital Tele-Converter and Safety Zoom
* 2.5” LCD with wide viewing angle and real-image optical viewfinder
* 20 shooting modes including underwater mode.
1cm Macro- I also paint and photograph wargames miniatures so a good macro mode would be a bonus.

This was the summary of the review at DP review:

Conclusion - Pros

* Good resolution
* Clean and detailed results across the frame and zoom range
* Useful 35-210mm equiv. 6x zoom lens
* Effective image stabilization
* Fairly light noise reduction means less fine detail is lost at higher ISO settings (though see below)
* Fast, reliable focus
* Reliable exposure and white balance and accurate color (though a bit too 'vivid' by default)
* Sophisticated and comprehensive features and controls
* Good range of in-camera tonal and color adjustments
* Excellent build quality for a 'budget' camera
* Very little purple fringing
* Compact and lightweight
* Big, fairly bright (though low res) screen
* Excellent battery life from 2x NiMH batteries
* Good balance of noise reduction and detail retention at higher ISO settings
* Excellent macro mode
* Excellet movie quality
* Optional add-on lenses, filters, 40m underwater case and slave flash
* Good value for money

Conclusion - Cons

* Highlight clipping and occasional over-exposure in bright, contrasty conditions
* Combined card / battery compartment can make changing cards without losing the batteries fiddly
* Zoom is a bit jumpy (not enough steps between 35 and 210mm)
* No dedicated button for ISO and no custom modes / shortcuts
* Our sample had occasional auto orientation errors (landscape shots being tagged for rotation unnecessarily)
* Slow flash recycling (and fairly slow shot-to-shot times in general)
* Low res and very slightly laggy screen
* Images a bit soft viewed at 100% - benefit from a little sharpening
* ISO 400 and 800 do look quite noisy

Overall conclusion

Canon's A series PowerShots get better with each generation, and - thanks to the inclusion of extensive photographic control and technologies such as DIGIC II and image stabilization has lifted cameras like the A710 IS firmly out of the 'entry level' bracket they originally occupied.

The A710 IS takes the formula established with the A700 - well-priced, compact camera with big zoom and full photographic control - and adds the one thing that was missing, an effective optical image stabilization system. And in doing so it makes a good camera immeasurably better. The extra megapixel offers little if any real advantage; the resolution is increased slightly at ISO 80, but at higher ISO settings the slightly stronger NR soon gets rid of that.

Whilst there are other small cameras with big, stabilized lenses (most notably from Ricoh and Panasonic) the A710 IS has virtually no direct competitors thanks to an extensive feature set that offers enough to tempt the more serious photographer. Like all recent A series models it offers an awful lot of camera for what is (for Canon at least) a very low price. The output quality is surprisingly good, exposure (mostly) and focus reliable, and the amount of photographic control on offer is superb. The ability to further expand the A710's abilities with add-on lenses is also a definite plus point.

Of course it's not all good news; you have to watch the exposure and use AE compensation more than I'd like in bright, contrasty outdoor conditions - something Canon really needs to address. And the screen may be big and fairly bright, but it's not fantastic - the slight lag and low resolution are the compromises you have to accept if you're not shelling out for an S or G series. You also don't get custom modes, shortcut buttons or an external ISO control, or (less crucially) the latest fancy transition and playback effects.

But you do get a nicely designed, nicely built camera with more than enough features to keep most users happy. It's no surprise the more recent A series PowerShots have often been dubbed 'Mini Gs'.

Canon has carved out a nice little niche with the A series; workmanlike (I would say unglamorous, but the A710 IS has significantly improved styling), solid, dependable and affordable photographic tools that just take good pictures without too much effort. The A710 IS even manages to be truly compact, and it has something most A series models don't; character. It's the first A series I've used that I didn't simply admire for its reliability and excellent price/performance ratio. The A710 IS is actually a very nice, rewarding camera to use - sort of like a perky little brother to the PowerShot S3 IS.

If you don't mind it not being the fastest 'social' snapshot camera in the world (the flash recycling puts paid to that) and don't mind taking control of the manual controls (at least the AE compensation) when shooting on very bright days, this may well be just the camera you've been looking for.

Without the metering / clipping issues this would be an easy Highly Recommended. As it stands its unique combination of features and keen pricing just saves it from a lower rating. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to the more experienced photographer on a budget wanting a compact camera packed with goodies, perhaps less wholeheartedly so for the absolute beginner wanting true 'point and shoot' infallibility. "

A full review can be found here: Canon PowerShot A710 IS Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

I am a little concerned about the Flash recyc. times and general speed of this camera, Could anyone who knows anything about cameras help me to determine whether this would cause a major problem for UW work?

The Fuji F31fd on the other hand has the following features: Fujifilm FinePix F31 fd digital camera specifications: Digital Photography Review

But there is no in depth review. The user reviews I have read say that it is very fast, and more rugged than similar spec canon cameras.

Any views on the pros and cons of either of these cameras most welcome. Although I'm still open to other ideas..

Thanks,

Jo

[Annie S]

Hi Kat,
I would always favour Fuji but I don't know enough about your other possiblities to make a fair comparison.

Fuji looked after me really well when I flooded my housing in October. I paid £99 to send it in to be repaired. I was told if it was not repairable then I would get a full refund. I actually ended up with a replacement camera. Bearing in mind that the f810 is no longer made that saved me an absolute fortune ,not to mention the hassle of having to buy a complete new set up.

It will probably be quite some time before you feel confident to explore all your cameras functions and settings...some of them I think make good selling points rather than all being wonderfully useful. And unless you are planning to enlarge all your prints into huge posters you won't notice significant differences for a 6x4 print anyway.
The camera will always be just a tool - the best camera in the world won't give you the ability to take fantastic pictures overnight (unfortunately) but keep practicing. Look at as many peoples pictures as you can for inspiration. Alex Mustard, Martin Edge and the such like will probably start you drooling...

Which ever camera you end up with it will still be obsolete 2 weeks after you have bought it!!!!

And good luck with the telescope pictures. I know absolutely nothing about that so I would love to see some of those pictures.

[kittykat23uk]

Hi Annie S,

Many thanks for your reply. I'm really having a tough time trying to decide! All opinions are welcome, its good to know that Fuji have such good after sales, this wasn't something I've really put a lot of thought into so thanks for pointing that out.

[TimIngmire]

Hello Jo and welcome to Digigreen.

I've looked at the specs for the two above side by side and also included the F30. TBH I'm not sure of the benefits of the F30 vs the newer Fuji.

In my view it would be the Canon but only by the slightest of margins. The image stabilisation does look good and this will come in handy. 1cm close focus sounds great but UW it would be difficult to effectively light a subject at that distance - topside is a different matter. One of the real benefits IMO is the ability to use AA batteries instead of a bespoke battery.

HTH

Tim

ps you can buy a housing for the Canon? Have you checked? Don't buy the camera without being absolutely sure.

[Mark]

Hi And welcome

As I said on YD I have tendencies towards Fuji as I get good results from mine.

[Lee B]

I have an Olympus SP350 and find it a fantastic camera above and below water.

It has full Manual Control if you want it including WB. It has also a great housing that allows you to use the hotshoe for External strobes.

Take alook

Cameras Underwater: Underwater housings for the Olympus SP-350 and SP-310 cameras: Olympus PT-030 and Ikelite.

[kittykat23uk]

Hi all,

Well, it looks like events may have overtaken me slightly as I've just managed to win myself an Oly 5050 complete with PT-015 housing for £200 on ebay. Assuming its in fine working order what are peoples' experience of using this camera? I have in the past read lots of good things about these. Any advice on getting started with it?

ETA: The camera doesn't come with any memory. Could someone please advise me as to what is the best memory card to use in this camera? I believe it takes both XD picture cards and compact flash.

[KenByrne]

Not sure of the merits of the different memory types.

I usually buy memory cards from 7dayshop and Compact Flash is slightly cheaper than XD.

7dayshop.com - Online Store

7dayshop.com - Online Store

There's a one off delivery charge of £3.99 per order so if you need batteries or a charger they are cheap for those as well and if you put as much stuff in one order as possible you only the £3.99 once.

[Cussy]

I have the 7070 and find that write speed to Compact Flash is better than to xD. xD also seems to be about twice as much per GB than CF. If you get Olympus xD you can use Panorama function on the camera, but I always construct my own panoramas manually anyway as phots have to be perfectly positioned to work in the software.

When it comes to chosing the speed of the card, be careful. If I remember correctly my 7070 can't write fast than 10x speed, so buying expensive 56x speed card is pointless. Check whether the 5050 can take the faster H type xD cards.

Shop around, plenty of places will rip you off. Memory card prices are so volatile that you can esily pay last months price!

HTH
Rob

PS I have a 2GB CF and 1GB xD in the 7070 - can never have too much memory once the housing is sealed for a days dive!!

[TimIngmire]

For Mymode settings goto Splashdown Divers - Boynton Beach, Florida - Underwater Digital Photography - 5050 Settings - 5060 Settings

Lots of interesting c5050 info there.

I had a 5050 myself before going DSLR - it is still an excellent camera.